Reeders' Weapons

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jkinnear
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Reeders' Weapons

Post by jkinnear » December 7th, 2006, 6:28 pm

I have always been curious about which weapons GGM Reeders used. I have heard that he had mastered 81 weapons and two of his favorites were the bullwhip and the Tji jiu (not sure of spelling, but the Indonesian version of the sai). What are the rest? Does anyone know?
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Post by kungfujoe » December 7th, 2006, 6:28 pm

If I recall correctly, 81 is a common number in Chinese numerology. Chinese culture is rife with exaggeration. Old men are said to be in excess of 120 years old when they may be in their 70's, etc. It's not dishonesty per se, since it's so ingrained in the culture.

My personal suspicion is that this same cultural aspect applies to the claim that Reeders had "operational knowledge of 81 weapons" (or had mastered them, depending on the source). The point is that he was very proficient with many weapons, and the actual number may not have any specific basis in fact.

Again, that's just my personal suspicion, based on knowing some aspects of Chinese culture and knowing how "martial arts legends" often work. For all I know, the number could be totally accurate. :)

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Re: Reeder's weapons

Post by kungfujoe » December 7th, 2006, 6:29 pm

kinnear wrote:I have always been curious about which weapons GGM Reeders used. I have heard that he had mastered 81 weapons and two of his favorites were the bullwhip and the Tji jiu (not sure of spelling, but the Indonesian version of the sai). What are the rest? Does anyone know?
The weapon is the "Titjiu" or "Tit Jiu" - as I understand it, the name is actually the name commonly used for the weapon (the "iron ruler") in the Hokkien dialect, where it's a fairly common weapon. It's also common in Indonesian arts (sometimes called the Tjabang - "branch", and a few other names... siku siku maybe?). Given that he apparently used the Chinese name for the weapon, I question whether his application of the weapon was the "Indonesian version" or the "Chinese version" of the weapon (my guess, based on very little, is that it was a little of both, like the rest of the art).

Other weapons... A few come to mind
- Staff
- Machete
- Knife
- Stick (short stick, i.e. escrima)

Some of our weapons training has actually come from "outside the family," so I don't know for sure that Reeders trained with them, but we also use the three-section staff and the Chinese broadsword (dao). We also use the Chinese straight sword (jian), but we shamelessly stole that from Nick Gracenin, and all of the material is technically unrelated to our art. :)
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club

"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb

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AbuSana'
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Post by AbuSana' » December 7th, 2006, 6:29 pm

doesn't some of the stick training come from outside the art as well?

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Post by kungfujoe » December 7th, 2006, 6:29 pm

AbuSana wrote:doesn't some of the stick training come from outside the art as well?
Depends on who you're learning from. If you were learning from me, yes, some of the stick training was imported from another art. If you learn from Dan Donzella (or one of his students), I expect he's folded his kali experience in as well. The same is likely true for a number of other teachers in the system.
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Nick Gracenin?

Post by munkman » December 25th, 2006, 1:10 pm

I remember when I saw him at my first tournament when I was 15 he did this awesome drunken boxing form, then I fell in love with kung fu forever after that. I just thought this was funny, nothing too relevant to the topic.

Sorry
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Post by AbuSana' » December 25th, 2006, 9:28 pm

kungfujoe wrote:
AbuSana wrote:doesn't some of the stick training come from outside the art as well?
Depends on who you're learning from. If you were learning from me, yes, some of the stick training was imported from another art. If you learn from Dan Donzella (or one of his students), I expect he's folded his kali experience in as well. The same is likely true for a number of other teachers in the system.


So for which teachers is this not true, anyone know off hand?

Also, I wonder if anyone can add to the list that Eric started.

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Post by kungfujoe » December 26th, 2006, 6:01 pm

AbuSana' wrote:So for which teachers is this not true, anyone know off hand?

Also, I wonder if anyone can add to the list that Eric started.

I don't know. I would expect that if Jerry Bradigan teaches any stick technique, it comes strictly from GGM Reeders, as Reeders was the only teacher he's ever had (I know he teaches machete/sword, and the stick is basically a proxy for those weapons). There may be others who are more "pure" (not that our art is at all "pure" given Reeders' own broad background), and who teach stick technique that comes from Reeders' teaching.
Erik Harris
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"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb

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