Black Flag Wing Chun Training with Master Kenneth Lin 9/12
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Aaron McKillip
- First Message Posted
- Posts: 9
- Joined: September 3rd, 2010, 7:19 pm
Black Flag Wing Chun Training with Master Kenneth Lin 9/12
Announcing:
Black Flag Wing Chun Training with Master Kenneth Lin*
Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun with Suhu Kenneth Lin*
*Current leader of the Hek Ki Boen Lineage
Come experience the short-distance, explosive power of Wing Chun as
expressed in the Hek Ki Boen lineage.
In this workshop you will experience a sweaty body, a learning mind,
and a happy spirit! Master Lin is an excellent communicator, eager and
willing to work with you until you understand the depth and breadth of
information that his lineage has to offer.
You'll also hear about the latest and greatest research by the Ving
Tsun Museum.
Location:
5715 Brandt Pike
Dayton, Ohio
Date:
Sunday September 12th
Time:
10a to 3p
Cost:
HKB Members: $75
Non-Members: $150
Call 937-236-6485 to RSVP for this great workshop
Black Flag Wing Chun Training with Master Kenneth Lin*
Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun with Suhu Kenneth Lin*
*Current leader of the Hek Ki Boen Lineage
Come experience the short-distance, explosive power of Wing Chun as
expressed in the Hek Ki Boen lineage.
In this workshop you will experience a sweaty body, a learning mind,
and a happy spirit! Master Lin is an excellent communicator, eager and
willing to work with you until you understand the depth and breadth of
information that his lineage has to offer.
You'll also hear about the latest and greatest research by the Ving
Tsun Museum.
Location:
5715 Brandt Pike
Dayton, Ohio
Date:
Sunday September 12th
Time:
10a to 3p
Cost:
HKB Members: $75
Non-Members: $150
Call 937-236-6485 to RSVP for this great workshop
-
kungfujoe
- Site Admin
- Posts: 86
- Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:05 pm
- Location: Fairfax Station, VA
- Contact:
$150 for a five-hour seminar? That'd be awfully hard to justify even in a high cost of living area like Washington DC, much less Dayton. I've seen seminars with prominent heads of systems (people training since well before Kenneth Lin/Lin Xiang Fuk was born) flown in from around the world that cost much less than that much.
Have you had any exposure to Liu Seong's arts, and can you comment on similarities and differences between them? I haven't seen much connection/similarity between more common (Yip Man lineage) Wing Chun systems and ours, but Hek Ki Boen appears to be a separate line, and goes through Indonesia, just as ours does. It seems unlikely that a system would spend much time in Indonesia without absorbing a decent amount of Silat, making both Liu Seong gungfu and HKB Fukien arts with an Indonesian influence.
Have you had any exposure to Liu Seong's arts, and can you comment on similarities and differences between them? I haven't seen much connection/similarity between more common (Yip Man lineage) Wing Chun systems and ours, but Hek Ki Boen appears to be a separate line, and goes through Indonesia, just as ours does. It seems unlikely that a system would spend much time in Indonesia without absorbing a decent amount of Silat, making both Liu Seong gungfu and HKB Fukien arts with an Indonesian influence.
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club
"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club
"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb
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Aaron McKillip
- First Message Posted
- Posts: 9
- Joined: September 3rd, 2010, 7:19 pm
Not sure why they are charging so little? But I will say this. I have been to seminars with some important people that charged around $80 to $100 and GM Lin's Seminars are 100 times better quality. If you went to just one Seminar you would know exactly what I mean. There would be no doubt in your mind.
If I knew there was a Grandmaster or Leader of a System (which Grandmaster Lin is the current Successor/Lineage Holder of HKB in the U.S.) that was being flown in from another part of the world, my Seminar fee with Hung Bao together would equal more than $150, even if the Seminar fee was just $50. I would consider it bad etiquette to do otherwise.
Sorry, I have not had the pleasure of experiencing Liu Seong's arts. HKB is still a WC family lineage, but not a Yip Man lineage. HKB has not been taught to the public for over 300 years until just recently. It has only been here in the U.S. for about 5 years.
There has not been an Indonesian influence in HKB. The system has a "Formula" which is based on certain lines and points of the body, as well as concepts that have to be followed. These things will not allow the system to be changed. Sure there is always personal expression of the body, but the Formula and concepts have to be followed at all times. If anything is added to the system it can no longer be called HKBWC. So in turn, there is no Silat in HKB.
HKB is origionally from on of 5 Secret Societies that was formed after the burning of the Southern Shaolin Temple in the Fukian province in China over 350 years ago. When you hear stories about the 5 men that escaped from the burning temple, this is what they are referring to. There were actually more like 100 men that escaped the burning temple. The government was after them for creating the WC system because it was specifically made to counter all the military styles at the time. Therefore they tried to wipe them out so they could not overthrow the government, which is what they were planning.
Aaron M.
If I knew there was a Grandmaster or Leader of a System (which Grandmaster Lin is the current Successor/Lineage Holder of HKB in the U.S.) that was being flown in from another part of the world, my Seminar fee with Hung Bao together would equal more than $150, even if the Seminar fee was just $50. I would consider it bad etiquette to do otherwise.
Sorry, I have not had the pleasure of experiencing Liu Seong's arts. HKB is still a WC family lineage, but not a Yip Man lineage. HKB has not been taught to the public for over 300 years until just recently. It has only been here in the U.S. for about 5 years.
There has not been an Indonesian influence in HKB. The system has a "Formula" which is based on certain lines and points of the body, as well as concepts that have to be followed. These things will not allow the system to be changed. Sure there is always personal expression of the body, but the Formula and concepts have to be followed at all times. If anything is added to the system it can no longer be called HKBWC. So in turn, there is no Silat in HKB.
HKB is origionally from on of 5 Secret Societies that was formed after the burning of the Southern Shaolin Temple in the Fukian province in China over 350 years ago. When you hear stories about the 5 men that escaped from the burning temple, this is what they are referring to. There were actually more like 100 men that escaped the burning temple. The government was after them for creating the WC system because it was specifically made to counter all the military styles at the time. Therefore they tried to wipe them out so they could not overthrow the government, which is what they were planning.
Aaron M.
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kungfujoe
- Site Admin
- Posts: 86
- Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:05 pm
- Location: Fairfax Station, VA
- Contact:
I've been to and seen advertisements for many seminars, from little-known instructors that are among the best to world-renowned instructors whose names alone hold monetary value. Hour-for-hour, I don't recall ever seeing a seminar this expensive, so I think you may have the question backwards. Dan Inosanto's seminars are probably the closest, and I can't think of another name in the martial arts that's as well-recognized (which, regardless of actual quality of instruction, considerably affects a seminar's perceived monetary value).Aaron McKillip wrote:Not sure why they are charging so little?
If you've not been exposed to Liu Seong's arts, what attracted you to this web forum?Aaron McKillip wrote:Sorry, I have not had the pleasure of experiencing Liu Seong's arts. HKB is still a WC family lineage, but not a Yip Man lineage. HKB has not been taught to the public for over 300 years until just recently. It has only been here in the U.S. for about 5 years.
How long was HKB practiced in Indonesia? It's incredibly rare for a cultural practice to exist within another culture for any significant length of time without being influenced by (and influencing) the host culture. In terms of martial arts, it might even be counterproductive for a system NOT to adapt to the fighting methods prominent in a region, if it's present for more than a few generations.Aaron McKillip wrote:There has not been an Indonesian influence in HKB. The system has a "Formula" which is based on certain lines and points of the body, as well as concepts that have to be followed. These things will not allow the system to be changed. Sure there is always personal expression of the body, but the Formula and concepts have to be followed at all times. If anything is added to the system it can no longer be called HKBWC. So in turn, there is no Silat in HKB.
Have you done much examination of Chinese history outside the context of your art? It's often interesting/jarring how much a system's stated history seems to conflict with what appears to have actually happened, based on evidence not influenced by "true believers." The southern Shaolin temple is an especially interesting bit of history... The only so-called-evidence for its existence is its appearance in martial arts historical lore, folklore, and fictional stories, none of which are known for their veracity.Aaron McKillip wrote:HKB is origionally from on of 5 Secret Societies that was formed after the burning of the Southern Shaolin Temple in the Fukian province in China over 350 years ago. When you hear stories about the 5 men that escaped from the burning temple, this is what they are referring to. There were actually more like 100 men that escaped the burning temple. The government was after them for creating the WC system because it was specifically made to counter all the military styles at the time. Therefore they tried to wipe them out so they could not overthrow the government, which is what they were planning.
This isn't an attack on your system, by any means. Our own system's history very much appears to be a combination of fact, exaggeration, and fiction, too. As often as not, determining which is which is difficult or impossible.
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club
"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club
"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb
-
Aaron McKillip
- First Message Posted
- Posts: 9
- Joined: September 3rd, 2010, 7:19 pm
I am not here to comment on other Grandmasters/Masters or what they charge for seminars.
Even though I do not usually post on other WC lineage conversations, I do like to learn about them. I have studied WC from 5 different perspectives/lineages thus far. So I do go to many forums and read the posts, no matter what the lineage of WC. Also, part of my job with the VTM is to let people know about HKB Eng Chun.
In 1907 HKB went to Indonesia from Fujian (Fukian) Province in China. At this point in time the Secret Society Blood Oath was still being done. In the early 70's they stopped doing the Blood Oath. Since then the training has still been conducted in the old way, privately inside of the Masters house. They did not teach openly as far as I know. Therefore there was not a lot of chance for contact with other artforms. Mostly because with the Blood Oath you could not even talk about your training. GM Lin came to the U.S. in 2005 to spread the System. So from 1907 till 2005 HKB has only been in Indonesia. It is still in Indonesia now, but it is now being taught in the U.S. as well.
As I said before I have studied from 5 different perspectives/lineages of WC. So yes I have studied the different histories of different WC lineages.
Actually the Southern Shaolin temple was rebuilt on the same grounds it was destroyed on. There are three Southern Shaolin temples now but as far as the Chinese Government is concerned, only 1 of them is considered to be built on the original site. There are many many documents the Government has to prove this. I will be going to this temple with My Sifu, Sigung and many others next year.
I do not see your words as attacking HKB. I appreciate the respectfull conversation. It's a nice change.
Aaron M.
Even though I do not usually post on other WC lineage conversations, I do like to learn about them. I have studied WC from 5 different perspectives/lineages thus far. So I do go to many forums and read the posts, no matter what the lineage of WC. Also, part of my job with the VTM is to let people know about HKB Eng Chun.
In 1907 HKB went to Indonesia from Fujian (Fukian) Province in China. At this point in time the Secret Society Blood Oath was still being done. In the early 70's they stopped doing the Blood Oath. Since then the training has still been conducted in the old way, privately inside of the Masters house. They did not teach openly as far as I know. Therefore there was not a lot of chance for contact with other artforms. Mostly because with the Blood Oath you could not even talk about your training. GM Lin came to the U.S. in 2005 to spread the System. So from 1907 till 2005 HKB has only been in Indonesia. It is still in Indonesia now, but it is now being taught in the U.S. as well.
As I said before I have studied from 5 different perspectives/lineages of WC. So yes I have studied the different histories of different WC lineages.
Actually the Southern Shaolin temple was rebuilt on the same grounds it was destroyed on. There are three Southern Shaolin temples now but as far as the Chinese Government is concerned, only 1 of them is considered to be built on the original site. There are many many documents the Government has to prove this. I will be going to this temple with My Sifu, Sigung and many others next year.
I do not see your words as attacking HKB. I appreciate the respectfull conversation. It's a nice change.
Aaron M.
-
Aaron McKillip
- First Message Posted
- Posts: 9
- Joined: September 3rd, 2010, 7:19 pm
Testimonial about HKB Seminar from an Instructor Cantidate
Thanks for everyone that come out to visit my teacher this weekend.
Master Meng
Seminar with Grandmaster Lin at the HKB Meng's of Dayton from Missy Pruden
Huber Heights, Ohio
Sept. 2010
Hosted by Sifu Benny Meng, this past weekend was a huge positive step forward towards expanding the acknowledgement of Hek Ki Boen Black Flag Eng Chun. Grand Master Kenneth Lin came to HKB branch school Huber Heights Ohio to instruct his Instructor Certification Program candidates as well as give a workshop on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun to the public. He brought along with him 2 of his Virginia Headquarter students, father and daughter Gordon and Demarie to assist during the workshop.
Grand Master Lin arrived at the HKB Dayton Meng's Martial arts of Dayton/Ving Tsun Museum Friday afternoon and after lunch he began instructing his Instructor Certification Program candidates at 2pm. Being both compassionate and driven, Grand Master Lin introduced new information to his candidates with clarity while continuing to express the importance of separation/detachment as being a key factor in Hek Ki Boen training. The candidates were given physical as well as intellectual knowledge.
After training for several hours, everyone headed to the home of Master Benny Meng where he and his family hosted a dinner for everyone. This was a feast of a variety of foods and also great flowing conversation. Many thanks went to Master Meng's parents and to his wife, Sunmi Meng, for preparing those savory dishes. Sifu Brad Ryan arrived shortly after dinner. He is the owner/instructor of Meng's Martial Arts of Katy, Texas. This was Sifu Ryan first time meeting and training with Grand Master Lin and had a all night interview and discussion.
Saturday's Instructor Certification Program training was hosted at the Cincinnati branch of Meng's Martial Arts. Upon arrival Grand Master Lin was greeted with a high level of respect and acknowledgement from Sifu John Lambert and his loyal students. After a formal introduction and tour of the school grounds the Grand Master Lin gave a seminar session. Each time Grand Master Lin teaches, the student gets a clearer and deeper understanding of this awesome system. We sweated, we learned and we smiled! After that session the non-Instructor Certification Program members were dismissed and we stopped for lunch. After lunch began a session of intense, non-stop training where Instructor Certification Program candidates were not only given more physical training but conceptual and principle level knowledge as well. Grand Master Lin is a very thorough person so he made sure that his candidates had a clear understanding of each segment that he taught from technical, mechanics, concepts, principle to spiritual. After training for several hours Grand Master Lin ended the teaching session for the night and everyone headed to dinner at Bravo's restaurant in Dayton where we ate while indulging in intellectual conversation on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun and took a moment to enjoy good company. On Saturday night, Grand Master Lin and Master Meng conducted an extensive interview with Sifu Brad Ryan, interviewing him on his potential enrollment in the Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun Instructor Certification Program. He was accepted into the Instructor Certification Program by Grand Master Lin along with Sifu John Lambert, the Owner/Instructor of Meng's Martial Arts of Cincinnati. Congratulations to you both.
Sunday morning workshop began with an introduction of Grand Master Lin as well as Grand Master Lin's acknowledgement of students that he had not met during his past previous seminars. Master Meng and his students presented Grand Master Lin with a trophy of their appreciation. Very fitting (you've got to see it to believe it)!!! Again Grand Master Lin showed another positive side of himself: humbleness. Grand Master Lin began training by giving a brief talk on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun itself and the direction that we are heading. He then introduced some of the requirements for first level of training. With each technique that was shown Grand Master gave the student a creative way to train and understand what was given so that they can obtain the body intelligence. There were many students present so they were able to switch partners several times so that they can experience different energies. Grand Master went around and personally assisted each student. Attending the workshop with the adults were five members of the Meng's Martial Arts Youth Program: Vincent Meng, Michael Vann II, Jejuan Tinsley, Ricky Le, and Aaron Dobbs. These youth were able to get an understanding of what Grand Master Lin was teaching so this says a lot about the awesome teaching skills of Grand Master Lin. After a brief dismissal for lunch the second session of training began where Grand Master Lin gave an informative explanation of what was being taught. This helped to make the training experience positive for everyone because he reached out to everyone no matter the level of your skill.
At the end of the workshop a special Hek Ki Boen designed cake was presented to Grand Master Lin and enjoyed by everyone. A great end to yet another remarkable workshop given by the Grand Master. After the workshop a brief question and answer session took place in the lobby of the school where Grand Master Lin, being such a down to earth person, talked with students about things ranging from their training to understanding the history of Hek Ki Boen Black Flag Eng Chun. All students were invited to have dinner with the Grand Master and many did attend for the Korean BBQ.
After dinner Grand Master Lin went back to the home of Master Meng where he began giving his Instructor Certification Program candidates more intense and informative training until near midnight. Then, Master Pham, TKD Olympian, invited everyone to watch the new movie Yip Man 3 at his house.
Overall this has been the best visit with Grand Master Lin to date. This system has been around since the 1600's and to have made it to 2010 is a true testimony to not only it's authenticity but to its true essence of Chan and the true nature of Shaolin Wing Chun. Deep thanks to Grand Master Kenneth Lin for sharing such an amazing system with your grand students and Master Meng for hosting this great event. I am sure that everyone who got to experience your awesome teaching walked away with an enlightened body, mind and spirit along with an added understanding of the importance of separation of body, mind and breath.
Many thanks Grand Master Lin!!!!! We look forward to learning and experiencing all that you have to teach us. Bring on many more of your workshops!!! We can't get enough!!
Master Meng
Seminar with Grandmaster Lin at the HKB Meng's of Dayton from Missy Pruden
Huber Heights, Ohio
Sept. 2010
Hosted by Sifu Benny Meng, this past weekend was a huge positive step forward towards expanding the acknowledgement of Hek Ki Boen Black Flag Eng Chun. Grand Master Kenneth Lin came to HKB branch school Huber Heights Ohio to instruct his Instructor Certification Program candidates as well as give a workshop on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun to the public. He brought along with him 2 of his Virginia Headquarter students, father and daughter Gordon and Demarie to assist during the workshop.
Grand Master Lin arrived at the HKB Dayton Meng's Martial arts of Dayton/Ving Tsun Museum Friday afternoon and after lunch he began instructing his Instructor Certification Program candidates at 2pm. Being both compassionate and driven, Grand Master Lin introduced new information to his candidates with clarity while continuing to express the importance of separation/detachment as being a key factor in Hek Ki Boen training. The candidates were given physical as well as intellectual knowledge.
After training for several hours, everyone headed to the home of Master Benny Meng where he and his family hosted a dinner for everyone. This was a feast of a variety of foods and also great flowing conversation. Many thanks went to Master Meng's parents and to his wife, Sunmi Meng, for preparing those savory dishes. Sifu Brad Ryan arrived shortly after dinner. He is the owner/instructor of Meng's Martial Arts of Katy, Texas. This was Sifu Ryan first time meeting and training with Grand Master Lin and had a all night interview and discussion.
Saturday's Instructor Certification Program training was hosted at the Cincinnati branch of Meng's Martial Arts. Upon arrival Grand Master Lin was greeted with a high level of respect and acknowledgement from Sifu John Lambert and his loyal students. After a formal introduction and tour of the school grounds the Grand Master Lin gave a seminar session. Each time Grand Master Lin teaches, the student gets a clearer and deeper understanding of this awesome system. We sweated, we learned and we smiled! After that session the non-Instructor Certification Program members were dismissed and we stopped for lunch. After lunch began a session of intense, non-stop training where Instructor Certification Program candidates were not only given more physical training but conceptual and principle level knowledge as well. Grand Master Lin is a very thorough person so he made sure that his candidates had a clear understanding of each segment that he taught from technical, mechanics, concepts, principle to spiritual. After training for several hours Grand Master Lin ended the teaching session for the night and everyone headed to dinner at Bravo's restaurant in Dayton where we ate while indulging in intellectual conversation on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun and took a moment to enjoy good company. On Saturday night, Grand Master Lin and Master Meng conducted an extensive interview with Sifu Brad Ryan, interviewing him on his potential enrollment in the Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun Instructor Certification Program. He was accepted into the Instructor Certification Program by Grand Master Lin along with Sifu John Lambert, the Owner/Instructor of Meng's Martial Arts of Cincinnati. Congratulations to you both.
Sunday morning workshop began with an introduction of Grand Master Lin as well as Grand Master Lin's acknowledgement of students that he had not met during his past previous seminars. Master Meng and his students presented Grand Master Lin with a trophy of their appreciation. Very fitting (you've got to see it to believe it)!!! Again Grand Master Lin showed another positive side of himself: humbleness. Grand Master Lin began training by giving a brief talk on Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun itself and the direction that we are heading. He then introduced some of the requirements for first level of training. With each technique that was shown Grand Master gave the student a creative way to train and understand what was given so that they can obtain the body intelligence. There were many students present so they were able to switch partners several times so that they can experience different energies. Grand Master went around and personally assisted each student. Attending the workshop with the adults were five members of the Meng's Martial Arts Youth Program: Vincent Meng, Michael Vann II, Jejuan Tinsley, Ricky Le, and Aaron Dobbs. These youth were able to get an understanding of what Grand Master Lin was teaching so this says a lot about the awesome teaching skills of Grand Master Lin. After a brief dismissal for lunch the second session of training began where Grand Master Lin gave an informative explanation of what was being taught. This helped to make the training experience positive for everyone because he reached out to everyone no matter the level of your skill.
At the end of the workshop a special Hek Ki Boen designed cake was presented to Grand Master Lin and enjoyed by everyone. A great end to yet another remarkable workshop given by the Grand Master. After the workshop a brief question and answer session took place in the lobby of the school where Grand Master Lin, being such a down to earth person, talked with students about things ranging from their training to understanding the history of Hek Ki Boen Black Flag Eng Chun. All students were invited to have dinner with the Grand Master and many did attend for the Korean BBQ.
After dinner Grand Master Lin went back to the home of Master Meng where he began giving his Instructor Certification Program candidates more intense and informative training until near midnight. Then, Master Pham, TKD Olympian, invited everyone to watch the new movie Yip Man 3 at his house.
Overall this has been the best visit with Grand Master Lin to date. This system has been around since the 1600's and to have made it to 2010 is a true testimony to not only it's authenticity but to its true essence of Chan and the true nature of Shaolin Wing Chun. Deep thanks to Grand Master Kenneth Lin for sharing such an amazing system with your grand students and Master Meng for hosting this great event. I am sure that everyone who got to experience your awesome teaching walked away with an enlightened body, mind and spirit along with an added understanding of the importance of separation of body, mind and breath.
Many thanks Grand Master Lin!!!!! We look forward to learning and experiencing all that you have to teach us. Bring on many more of your workshops!!! We can't get enough!!