Cikalong/Cimande

a forum for discussing the Silat and Poekoelan systems found within Reeders' arts

 Moderators: kungfujoe, Sifu Guro Dan Donzella

Post Reply
Sifu Guro Dan Donzella
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 49
Joined: December 8th, 2006, 10:09 pm

Post by Sifu Guro Dan Donzella »

Tjikalong/ Tjimande. Both Javanese systems. They are so close in style and concept it is difficult to separate them. They both blend so well together is the reason they are considered as one art today. I should get some feedback on that comment from some pure Tjikalong or Tjimande players. One simple way to explain the difference in the older systems before the blend would be the Tjikalong uses more outside attacks smashing into the opponent as the Tjimande uses inside attacks to the softer tissues and crossing over the body to the other side. So it is obvious why they work together so well.

Sifu Guro Dan Donzella
User avatar
kungfujoe
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 86
Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:05 pm
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Contact:

Post by kungfujoe »

originally posted by Sapu Swift

Peace Sifu Guro Dan!

How are you, I have been missing in action establishing a new business in Auburn, New York! I myself have a affinity towards Tjimande and Cickalong! I prefer the tjimande due to the outside angles of attack and the consistent gunting or smashing of the opponents body, I agree with Sifu Guro they blend so well together, we know this from experience as we have trained in this manner, integrating these Silat systems! I too am blessed withthe ability to "eat" a Silat system and internalize after learning only principles!

Peace and Divine Love!
Sapu Swift
Sifu Denham-El
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club

"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb
User avatar
kungfujoe
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 86
Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:05 pm
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Contact:

Post by kungfujoe »

Interestingly, a friend of mine who has studied a family Silat system since early childhood has a very different take on Tjikalong / Tjimande than the Reeders family of arts does. From his understanding, growing up in an Indonesian family of martial artists, Tjimande was an art of the masses. Very "hard" and external, like many of the Cantonese gungfu systems (think "Hung Gar"). Tjikalong, on the other hand, was an art of nobility, and focused much more on evasion and "soft" techniques, because nobles couldn't be seen in day-to-day life covered in bruises from training. The closest analogy I can think of is the difference between dao (broadsword) and jian (Straight sword) in Chinese martial arts. Dao was used by the run-of-the-mill foot soldier; it was a common weapon and while there are lots of claims about how a "real" dao was made, it was generally made from whatever was available, including discarded foreign sword blades. Just about the only constant was that it was a curved, sturdy, heavy blade. Jian, on the other hand hand, was more commonly a weapon of nobility, its construction was a little bit more uniform, usually it was a bit more "delicate," and its usage was more "refined," somewhat like Western fencing.

I know that Indonesian society and history has a lot of incongruity. It's entirely possible that, in some way that I don't understand, both my friend's explanation of Tjikalong vs. Tjimande, and my teacher's explanation of Reeders' Tjikalong vs. Tjimande are both versions of the truth, even though they seem very incongruent. Both are respected, reliable sources of information, in any case. Furthermore, much of information publicly available on this systems is pretty unreliable, and of very questionable origin (especially Tjimande, for which there's quite a bit more "information" publicly available than Tjikalong).

For those who know (or believe you know) who the friend I am referring to is, please keep it to yourself. I was told this story about Tjikalong and Tjimande in private, and since I haven't seen him say anything about it in public, I'd rather not attribute it to anyone in particular, out of respect for a friend.
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club

"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb