Sparring?...

a forum for the discussion of philosophical approaches to training and the resultant effect on concept and instruction.
Post Reply
Jerry Martin
10+ Posts
10+ Posts
Posts: 49
Joined: December 9th, 2006, 1:53 pm
Location: Geneva,NY
Contact:

Post by Jerry Martin »

Hi Mike,

Long time no talk/see. How's Max doing?

To the topic at hand, I also have been thinking about this subject recently and I think the answer depends on what one is trying to learn.

I think that sparring teaches you a great deal; timing, distance and range, effective counters, and reactions to your movements by your opponent. I'm sure there's more learned from it that I'm missing but you get the point.

What sparring "removes" from the practitioner is the killer instinct. In other words, I'll hit you several times and relent and then you'll respond to me several times and we'll go back and forth for a while. Niether one finishing the job so to speak.

If the goal is to be a killer, I think that sparring is a bad thing. So, if I was training military personnel, I would not allow sparring at all. Or, if the practitioner is only interested in being deadly, maybe sparring isn't for them.

However, after saying all that, I believe that if one spars often enough, working on all ranges, far, close, clinch and ground, they can elevate their game to such a lofty height, that most that challenge them in the street will be no match and will be overpowered easily.

I think the best approach (and I find this to be true with a lot of things martial arts related) is to train both in "static" or "controlled" scenarios to work technique most of the time and then every so often spar. Even then I would almost never spar all out. It's always with about 35-50% power. This removes fear of injury but also is enough to know if someone could have "gotten" you or vice-versa.

Just my two cents. Anyone else?

Peace, Jerry
"Before enlightenment ,I chopped wood and carried water. After enlightenment, I chopped wood and carried water."

An old Zen proverb
User avatar
munkman
10+ Posts
10+ Posts
Posts: 26
Joined: December 18th, 2006, 1:09 am
Location: Euclid, OH
Contact:

Tournament Sparring

Post by munkman »

Hi, I would just like to say that I'm learning so much here and I'd like to thank every one for helping me and answering my questions.

This past year my sifu thought it be a good idea for me to enter tournaments and compete. He said it would be a good idea for me to get out there and see other things and test my skills against opponents of varying sizes and styles in a controlled enviornment.

I will say that sparring does encourgae control on my half. Control that is vital for instructing and gauging how far an opponent is away.

If immersed too deeply into the tournament mentality though it does develop bad habits. The entirety of the time of training for tournaments. I would train high kicks, and concerntrated on hitting first instead of hitting hardest or most effectively.

I was able to practice my angles though.

So the best part was learing how to execute movements quickly and time to practice angles.

The negative would be the lack of takedowns, and traing high kicks in the tournament sparring realm.
In movement, be as swift as the wind; In slow marches, be as majestic as the forest; In raiding and plundering, be as fierce as fire; In defence, be as firm as mountains; In camoflage, be as impenetrable as darkness; When striking, be as overwhelming as thunderbolts.
Sun Tzu
User avatar
AbuSana'
10+ Posts
10+ Posts
Posts: 48
Joined: December 8th, 2006, 8:19 pm
Location: Lackawanna, NY

Post by AbuSana' »

I agree with Mike.

A certain amount is necessary, but only a certain amount.

Back in the day, I used to always slap box with my cousins and my friends.
I developed some pretty good skills.
Slap boxing is essentially sparring.
However, like Jerry alluded to, you don't finish the job.

I remember one time I got jumped.
Come to find out later, these were some bad muthafuckas.
There was no where for me to go, so I just said fornicate it, and started throwing blows.
This effectively saved my life, fighting them off, bobbing and weaving,
but you fight the way you train.
I hadn't developed that "killer instinct."
So I didn't knock anyone out.
After analyzing the entire event, I realized that I had taught myself how to fight "slap boxing" style.
Sure, it was effective on the street, stopped me from getting my ass whooped,
but I didn't finish the job!

I've sparred a few times since then (in the ring, in a dirt pit), and it has exposed somethings for me.
However, like Sifu Mike said: "paired technique training is the most effective way to instill the reflexes necessary for effective self defense. "
I think by far!
User avatar
kungfujoe
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 86
Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:05 pm
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Contact:

Post by kungfujoe »

AbuSana' wrote:I remember one time I got jumped.
Come to find out later, these were some bad muthafuckas.
There was no where for me to go, so I just said fornicate it, and started throwing blows.
This effectively saved my life, fighting them off, bobbing and weaving,
but you fight the way you train.
I hadn't developed that "killer instinct."
So I didn't knock anyone out.
After analyzing the entire event, I realized that I had taught myself how to fight "slap boxing" style.
Sure, it was effective on the street, stopped me from getting my ass whooped,
but I didn't finish the job!
For the situation you describe, it sounds like you did what you needed to do. It serves no one to seriously hurt someone if it's not necessary, and you kept yourself from getting hurt. The "killer instinct" serves well when it's necessary, but in a situation like this, where something much more tame will suffice, it could hurt you. You might "win" the fight by hospitalizing or even killing one or more of your attackers, but aside from the psychological toll that killing someone takes on a person (according to many people - I thankfully can't draw on experiences in this area), using excessive force can land you in jail for defending yourself, especially as someone with martial arts training (it's a lot harder to argue that you accidentally seriously hurt someone when the prosecution points out that you've got formal training in how to hurt people).

Having said that, I'd rather overreact than underreact, but the less force you can use and still walk away unhurt, the better.
Erik Harris
Chinese-Indonesian Martial Arts Club

"A man's not a man when he takes the lower road,
Dragging his tail to cover his tracks" -dTb